Twitter Talk: Traverse City Cloistered Carmelites, Catholic Family Resource, Conscience Protection, Kristi Hofferber's Incredible Story, Bishops Tougher Response

Here's what is happening on my Twitter Account -

Letter of Appeal from Bishop Hebda for the Cloistered Carmelites (Note: some great pictures of possible changes to the chapel!)

Looks like a great resource for Catholic Families!

Conscience Protection - Bishops Vow to Fight Coercive HHS Mandate (Note: Information on what is happening with the HHS Mandate and how we as Catholics can help stop it!)

Conceived in incestuous rape, but 'not defined by my DNA': Kristi Hofferber's incredible story (Note: It is an incredible story!)

In Depth Analysis : The bishops' tougher response to the Obama 'compromise' mandate (Note: Support our Bishops!)

  • Ed Hahnenberg

    I think the present chapel is simple, elegant, and I wouldn't change a thing. I have many fond memories of a former prioress, Mother Immaculata, when the Carmelite numbers were significantly higher. An Ad orientem rennovation is not moving the Church forward.

    • OrganVirtuoso

      Thank you for telling us what the bishop thinks! I think, however, that if the bishop disapproved he'd not state what he did in his letter. Regardless, I know that a good share (if not all) the people who attend that chapel will be overwhelmingly grateful for the changes. I know the nuns for sure will be!

      And yes, that old chapel was, to put it simply, extraordinarily ugly.

  • Ed Hahnenberg

    OrganV...From your past replies, I wonder where your blogging hostility comes from. If you think you represent the followers of the EF form, heaven help them. You are consistently rude and hide behind a moniker that must spring from your ego. Be a gentleman first before you comment.

    • OrganVirtuoso

      Perhaps it was a bit sarcastic, but you do sound (in that post) as if you believe yourself the spokesman for the bishop and indicate that you believe he expresses something contrary to what he actually says in his letter. Let your bishop speak for himself, please.

      I've actually found that you make shots at people who disagree with you in many of your posts here, cut them down, insult their education (without even knowing the person), and generally belittle those who do not hold your position. I've seen many people bullied on blogs, forums, and other sites and it gets tiresome. It disturbs me that you have just this sort of behavior and then try to pin it on others. In particular, I didn't like the jab that you gave the current sisters. I'm perfectly willing to discuss calmly, but I expect it to be a two way street. You can't expect everyone else to go by one set of rules and have a separate set for yourself. Try to treat the other posters around here decently and perhaps you won't get reactions. Please, take a look in the mirror and realize that you are being antagonistic yourself whether you mean it or not.

      As for my own name, I just find it humorous. I know that I am far from an organ virtuoso, which is precisely why I picked the name. Although until I told you that, you really couldn't have known if I really were a top-notch organist or not. It just sounds like a case of post hostility on your part. That hostility which you so dislike. 🙂

      And to Jeremy: I'm sorry to have yet another personal discussion on your blog with Mr. Hahnenberg. I shall probably refrain from posting again as I find that a good share of your posts receive negative criticism by the same person over and over again who then does his best to run off those who are supportive of your posts. I find that the discussion is unfruitful, to say the least, under the circumstances.

      • Hey OrganVirtuoso, I hope to see you around and commenting in the future, but if not, thanks for visiting the site.

      • Ed Hahnenberg

        OraganV...I enjoy civil debate and welcome you back at any time. There's some truth to your criticism. However, please look at your words to me:

        "You are encouraging people to sin mortally. But perhaps you don't believe in confession or hell for that matter." I don't think you'll find that I ever judged you or anyone in that way.

        "That degree in theology you have, Mr. Hahnenberg, seems entirely useless right now if all the inanity you have posted is what you got out of it. So far you're putting a lot of stock into your own wisdom and pitting it against that of the Catholic Church." My education comes from eleven years in Catholic seminaries and I have NEVER pitted myself against the Catholic Church. As any good theologian, I have always expressed myself within the boundaries provided for by the Church itself.

        As a Catholic teacher and administrator in Catholic schools for twenty years, I found your comment that "Catholic schools turn out a bunch of nice little Protestants" to be quite silly.

        So, if we both agree to comment civilly, debate is healthy for the Church and let's continue to dialogue.

  • As far as what the bishop thinks, I have no idea. If the sisters want to update their chapel where Mass can be celebrated Ad Orientem or in the Extraordinary Form then I'm happy for them.

  • Ed Hahnenberg

    From my own knowledge of our bishop, and having observed his leadership of the diocese over the past two years, I find him to be the model shepherd. His continual presence at youth retreats, vocation workshops, parish activities, diocesan programs, Catholic school activities, and many other faith-supportive activities of our diocese has given all of us the example of a bishop whose energies are especially that of service. He is all things to everyone. He does not disparage any sincere effort to bring Christ to his people. His support of the Carmelite sisters is just one example of his Pauline character. He is just as supportive of those who choose to follow the liturgical preferences of the majority of Catholics as he is of those who prefer the more tradtional form. We are extremely fortunate in having him as our bishop. Unfortunately for us, I suspect he will be called to a more influential leadership role in the American church sooner rather than later.

    • I am a big fan of Bishop Hebda as well and we are very blessed to have him. I hope he is here for a while yet, but I agree with you he'll be called "sooner rather than later".

  • R.V. Gronowski, Senior Priest

    Ed; The Carmelite Chapel under the direction of Mother has done a great job in keeping this house of prayer open for all and providing daily and Sunday liturgies. The new windows recently installed are breath taking and from the sketch it appears the sanctuary renovations will fit well into the scheme of things.

    The two side altars, communion rail and altar against the wall all fit very beautifully especially for Mass celebrated ad orientem. Under normal circumstance I would not think this sort of renovation appropriate for a parish church. However, the monastery is not a parish church and has congregants of a more conservative bent. This will allow not only them but others in the area who prefer this legitimate form of celebration to have a wonderful and beautiful place to share in and experience worship.

    I congratulate Bishop Hebda, the diocesan planning board, the Nuns of the monastery and all who participate in prayer and financial donations to make this happen. I personally believe it will enhance the Traverse City area and all of the Diocese of Gaylord.

    Oh, I have said from day one, even to Bishop, that he will not be with us long. Gaylord is a training diocese and I believe bishop will shortly be moved to greater responsibility in a much larger diocese or Archdiocese. It will be a loss for the people of Gaylord but a gain for the people where he is sent to serve. My only complaint is that he is doing too much. He is everywhere, at every event and even with his leg challenges from his Vatican fall, he is moving faster than the speed of light. He needs to take time to rest, enjoy the north while he has time, and just be. His style is to be a mover and shaker and for that we are all blessed.

    Rev. R.V. Gronowski

    • Ed Hahnenberg

      Ron...All of what you say is true. It just seems this dual approach to liturgy in the broader church is creating unnecessary division.

  • Martha

    “We’re UNITED [my emphasis] with our ancestors in the faith so this is another way of representing the unity of the church,” said Archbishop Thomas Wenski.

    Re: the Traditional Latin Mass: “Our Lord instituted the unbloody Sacrifice of the Altar in this manner, because He willed that by its very nature it should be a visible representation of the Sacrifice of the Cross, which was accomplished by a violent shedding of blood unto death.” – Fr. N. Gihr

    “The liturgical reform, in its concrete realization, has distanced itself even more from its origin. The result has not been a reanimation, but devastation. In place of the liturgy, fruit of a continual development, they have placed a fabricated liturgy.” - Cardinal Ratzinger.

    The only thing "divisive" about the TLM is that it identifies and brings into the open those who hate the living, eternal church in her past. We traditionalists are only as Catholic as our ancestors were. If you disdain us, you disdain your own parents and grandparents and the edifices they constructed for the reverent, solemn worship worthy of God. Those edifices were a public display of our Catholic ethos; they well understood that Catholic aesthetic flows from ars celebrandi, and ars orandi is fashioned by the deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, a faith which like God will never change.

    God bless the good Sisters. I've already sent in my donation, which will be followed by more.

    Actually, Fr. G. I hope and pray for the restoration of all our churches to their former beauty and splendor, as I find that since VII most of our churches have gone the way of iconoclastic, modernistic, devoid- of- Catholic-ascetics Protestant "spaces" of worship. They have become, as the title of Michael Rose's book says, "ugly as sin."

    • Ed Hahnenberg

      It would seem that multiple altars in a church is at odds with Canon 1235, the explanation of which speaks of "one altar". The Rite of Dedication states that "in new churches it is better to erect one altar only, so that in the one assembly of the people of God the one altar may signify our one Savior Jesus Christ and the one eucharist of the Church."

      Refer, also to the CCC, paragraph 1182. "On the altar, which is the center of the church, the sacrifice of the Cross is made present under sacramental signs."

      I thought one of Vatican II's purposes was "aggiornamento", or the "bringing up to date of the church." The term was used by Blessed Pope John XXIII in a speech he gave on January 25, 1959.

      Apparently traditionalists want to turn the clock back to a time before the Council.